Curse

fleshvirus · Dec 05, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

to me it doesn't seem that people are using water spells, however they do use these spells in PvP often, but never in PvE.

Why Exactly do you guys hate it?

LoyalSoldier · Dec 05, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Low damage and the side effects are that useful in normal PvE. In PvP the snares are great though.

Riotgear · Dec 05, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

You don't need to snare stuff that's huddled around your tank. If something breaks off the tank, barbed trap will suffice. Only reason I'd consider putting points in water for PvE is for blurred vision.

Eclair · Dec 05, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Yeah, PvE doesn't really have any mobs that you'd really need to snare, which is unfortunate as it kills off a lot of skills that would other wise be fairly playable.

biofrog · Dec 05, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

It has it's uses, but I wouldn't choose it for a permanent use build as the damage is quite poor :-\

Actually that makes me thing. Perhaps the desolation guys are quite prone to water damage? It would make sense!

Anyhoo, myself and a fellow guild ele most recently used a water build for collecting the Sandstorm elite, and it really did work a treat. It was a straight forward build with popping up an energizing wind, a water attune and glyph of power, then he started with maelstrom I started with deep freeze, so the ol' SS wasn't going anywhere near us.

We both followed up with a shatterstorm / vaporblade spike combo, then we alternated with maelstrom / deep freeze. He didn't get a single skill off, and we spiked him easy for the cap then took out his fellows.

Overall, water has it's uses, but I still prefer earth for every day :-)

Francis Crawford · Dec 05, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

The snares would have to be buffed to be more useful in PvE.

That said, a Primary+Heroes team of three water elementalists could perhaps do the ice imps thing and really cause aggravation with multiple Maelstroms ...

Carth` · Dec 05, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Hmm, I wonder... have any of you actually played since the AI update? Snares make PvE a hell of a lot easier. The monsters are kiting all the time, and the melee ones are going straight for your casters, and keeping aggro on a tank is very difficult and somewhat pointless.

I was doing Pogahn Passage, and Guildwiki recommended Greater Conflagration + Ward Against Harm, so I made Zhed a water ele with WAH, and a few other water spells including some snares. Although his main purpose was to cast WAH, his snares were incredibly useful. Kiters and chasers moving 66% slower? Yes please. The AI still TRIES to move, but does it very slowly, meaning they actually get nothing done.

Furthermore, no running from AoE damage. Cynn, bless her, casted Fire Storm, and all the AI very slowly tried to get out of it. They were in it for nearly the full duration, and while they were trying to get out, cast no spells and attacked nobody.

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 05, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I agree the water damage is kinda poor but it has been buffed in more recent times (before the fire buffs) and isnt as weak as it used to be. However it does have great AoE effects and is effective on enemy Warriors due to the slow down. It also has a few great Elites such as Mirror of Ice and Ward against x (cant think of its name but its could be ward against Harm) etc.

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Water gives snares, which are very useful in long-drawn battles, but in PvE everyone dies quickly enough that they're pretty useless - not enough to justify a character anyway.

S_Serpent · Dec 05, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

you should build you ele (and any profession for that matter) for the thing at hand.

I henched the varesh mission with a waterbuild, not letting her getting back to her start position was fantastic. And I had an degen mesmer and necro hero with me too, so was very easy that way.

fleshvirus · Dec 05, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

you should build you ele (and any profession for that matter) for the thing at hand.

I henched the varesh mission with a waterbuild, not letting her getting back to her start position was fantastic. And I had an degen mesmer and necro hero with me too, so was very easy that way.

Well, thanks for your replies.
I guess water is meant to be for PvP. But after checking all those Elites, i was pretty sure that you could use it on PvE.

Btw, i am not the one is gonna use those builds, my heroes are

Turbobusa · Dec 05, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I gave shatterstone + vapor blade to zhed, it owns pretty much everything except derviches (way too many enchants to be removed)

Enix · Dec 05, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Straight water is not very useful in PvE - direct damage can take down enemies faster and if you are kiting an AI tank, all you have to do is run about 4 circles around your tank and they break aggro and focus on the tank.

As far as blurred vision goes - Why blind an enemy to curb damage when you can just nuke him to death? I prefer Air builds in PvE for Blinding flash and for physical dmg reduction (blinding flash = dead Glint).

Francis Crawford · Dec 06, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

To what extent do speed reductions stack, specifically Ward Against Foes and ice snares?

I think the answer is "Not at all, at least in those cases"

A pity -- if there actually were a useful way to get enemies stuck in Maelstrom's, Water might be a good thing in PvE after all.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 06, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Speed debuffs cap out at 66%, unless the skill specifically snares for more (such as mind freeze)

llsektorll · Dec 06, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

water eles fricken own... its just each type of attribute of the elementalist have their own purpose...

fire= dmg + burn
air= armor penetration + blind/weakness
water= slows + hexes
earth= defense

atleast that show i look at it

Ozric · Dec 06, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

I play Water mostly in the Fire Isles. Just spamming Ice Spear tears most things apart down there, and that spell inflicts more damage than the other Ele spammables. Ward/Harm is very useful down there too if you're not running a Ranger with Winter. Good to have a Water Ele around for the NF Moddock Crevice mission if you want to get the Master's to snare the spotters.

I'd run alot more of Water if the pugs weren't consistently demanding SF builds all the time. A good deal of dmg output in the line, snares, and decent armor buffs.

S_Serpent · Dec 06, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric

Good to have a Water Ele around for the NF Moddock Crevice mission if you want to get the Master's to snare the spotters.

lol, did that too, echo'ed even, I can say they didn't got far

and the ward against harm was one off the skill I took in the varesh mission too, I hardly experienced any deaths on my heroe's and henchies.

Elements_of_Galaxy · Dec 10, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I only use water magic for farming trolls. Mist Form and Frozen Burst. You don't really need to snare stuff in PvE.

Giga Strike · Dec 10, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

the only really useful water skills in pve would be deep freeze.

Deep freeze, my anti-dodger.